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Metric Threading on older WT lathe  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2015 06:14 pm
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TGTool
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Mana: 
I recently purchased a used lathe marked TD 5AH on the headstock and WT 5AH on the QC gearbox.  It's a basic belt driven backgeared lathe.  Date of mfg is 198412 which I presume is December of 1984 and S/N is 3642.

I need to be able to cut metric threads and it looks like it was designed for interchangeable gears to do that.  However I haven't found a manual or parts list for this machine.  The gear train on it now is 40-80-40 and the QC box cuts threads from 4 - 112 TPI.  The banjo looks just like the WT 3001-005-010 and the QC box also look identical.

So my basic question is whether the change gears for the later lathe are probably appropriate and if they're available from WT?

A second question is on the metric threading chart shown for that lathe.  It seems to indicate a 120/127 cluster gear which would be right for metric factoring, but I don't think a 127 T gear will physically fit.  Similar lathes use a 86/91 close approximation and I'm guessing that might be the correct swap here.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2015 06:38 pm
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Dongizmo
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Mana: 
Did you look in the owners manual?
you can download it here:
http://wttool.mywowbb.com/forum9/336.html



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 Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2015 07:04 pm
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TGTool
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Mana: 
Thanks.  Yes, I checked there but I think there may be a page missing.  In the parts manual, Change Gear section it has an exploded view but the following page of part numbers only show Nos. 36 - 40 so I don't see an item listing for the relevant gears.

And I also note the comment that replacement parts are no longer available.

What I suspect is that some aspects of the mechanical design have not needed improvement and have been copied complete into subsequent models so later machines might supply these items for an earlier one.  But I don't know for sure.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2015 08:59 pm
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Dongizmo
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Mana: 
There are no subsequent models, Tida, the manufacturer, went out of business in 87 or 88, there are other lathes that are similar, but the parts are not likely to interchange....



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 Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2015 09:34 pm
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TGTool
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Mana: 
Okay, thanks for the check.

As far as other parts not working, machinists ought to be able to MAKE them work.  That's our trade isn't it?  :P

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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2015 03:31 am
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the.hogman
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Mana: 
I have a TD-4A with a ton of change gears. Can I take pics or measure to help you?  These lathes are great!!  Phil
I also have an operators and parts manual scanned if you like. 

Last edited on Tue Mar 17th, 2015 03:33 am by the.hogman



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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2015 04:19 am
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TGTool
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the.hogman wrote: I have a TD-4A with a ton of change gears. Can I take pics or measure to help you?  These lathes are great!!  Phil
I also have an operators and parts manual scanned if you like.

hogman,

Thanks for the offer.  I've been looking at some other lathe manuals that also might be applicable but you could give me a good start with a crosscheck.

The metric thread I REALLY need to have covered is a 1.50.  If you could tell me what you would use (if you had to do it) I'll see how it corresponds. 

According one alternate I'd use a 45T gear in the first position, the 86/91T in the second position and a 60T in the lower position on the QC gearbox with the QC box set at B6.

There may be more than one way to get that ratio.  The TD4 manual's metric chart is a little hard to read but I think it suggests using a 43T and 60T gears with the QC tumblers again set at B6.

The photo in the manual on p. 7 does look identical to mine in the look of the tumbler and gear on the banjo although mine doesn't have the control switch mounted on the cover.

TGT

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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2015 12:42 pm
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Dongizmo
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Mana: 
IIRC, A TD4 had the push button FSR switch, and a TD5 had the lever on the apron..everything else should be the same.
If you can give me specs on the gear you need, I will check to see if I can match it up to anything I have on the shelf...



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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2015 01:25 pm
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TGTool
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Phil,

Perhaps I should have asked a slightly different question.  Would you verify for me first if the large gear in the middle of the train is an 86/91T cluster gear?  If these lathes used the same combination I can purchase that from another supplier of Far East lathes.  Unless of course WT also has that as a spare for subsequent machines.

Then the other gears should also be standard and I can fill in what I need.

Thanks,

Jan

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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2015 01:27 pm
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the.hogman
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Mana: 
I'll check that out when I get back to the shop.

I have never had to go down the metric route yet, so this is "foreign" to me.... (insert laugh here)...



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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2015 02:07 pm
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the.hogman
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Deleted as it just restates what you said above.  I'll get some info from the shop later.

Attachment: chart.bmp (Downloaded 25 times)

Last edited on Tue Mar 17th, 2015 02:29 pm by the.hogman



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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2015 02:22 pm
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TGTool
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Mana: 
Thanks, that's more legible than the print out from the manual which is a little hard to read.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2015 02:39 pm
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the.hogman
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Mana: 
Here is some interesting reading for you.  Notice deeper in the article, it talks about the smaller transposing gears on our lathes.
calculating gears for metric



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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2015 04:13 pm
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Mana: 
Thanks, good link to a good discussion.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2015 05:16 pm
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the.hogman
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Mana: 
I found 45 mesh with 91 and 86 mesh with 60 and QC B6 to get true 1.5 pitch.  Look at these charts as well.  Wish I could get to the shop quicker to look at mine!!!
Grizzly chart 
HF Enco chart

Discussion on this topicForum discussion



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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2015 12:44 am
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TGTool
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Dongizmo wrote: IIRC, A TD4 had the push button FSR switch, and a TD5 had the lever on the apron..everything else should be the same.
If you can give me specs on the gear you need, I will check to see if I can match it up to anything I have on the shelf...

gizmo,

I appreciate the offer to see what you have on hand that might work.

It looks like at the minimum I would need the 86/91T cluster gear, a 45 or 46T gear and a 60T.  Inside diameter is less critical and they can be bored or sleeved.  Less work than cutting all the teeth anyway.

Thanks,

Jan

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2015 01:54 am
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the.hogman
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Argh! Here is what I have and now it raises questions about my current setup.
On the machine now:
A spot outer is 40 and the inner is 38
B spot is not stepped, just a 70 stamped with 681
C spot is 40 stamped with 681
All gears are inline

In my cabinet for this lathe:
58 wide that can fit on B
52, 26 that fits A
60 wide, 50, 47, 46, 43, 30 wide that fit C
Some are orange, green, light green and unpainted
On mine, set at 20 tpi, a dial indicator shows about .051   It should be showing .050!!10 tpi shows a little over .101.  This means mine is not set perfect.  I will experiment and flip the 38/40 A gear and see what happens.  I've never had a thread not work, though...

Last edited on Wed Mar 18th, 2015 01:58 am by the.hogman



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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2015 02:25 am
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the.hogman wrote: Argh! Here is what I have and now it raises questions about my current setup.
On the machine now:
A spot outer is 40 and the inner is 38
B spot is not stepped, just a 70 stamped with 681
C spot is 40 stamped with 681
All gears are inline

In my cabinet for this lathe:
58 wide that can fit on B
52, 26 that fits A
60 wide, 50, 47, 46, 43, 30 wide that fit C
Some are orange, green, light green and unpainted
On mine, set at 20 tpi, a dial indicator shows about .051   It should be showing .050!!10 tpi shows a little over .101.  This means mine is not set perfect.  I will experiment and flip the 38/40 A gear and see what happens.  I've never had a thread not work, though...
Phil,

For Inch threads if the gears are 40 - anything - 40 that should be right.  In your A spot is it the 38 or the 40 that's meshing?

That's an interesting set of gears you have and the manual doesn't mention several of those tooth numbers.  Maybe just put in with the machine to confuse the newbies?

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2015 02:29 am
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the.hogman
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Mana: 
A spot 40 is meshing. The 38 drives

Yep all of the gears clearly came with it. I'll try to upload a pic or two



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